Taking Back Power: Deborah Liu & Yardley Pohl on Boards, Bias, and the New Rules of Leadership

In celebration of International Women’s Day, interos.ai hosted a fireside chat between two powerhouses: Yardley Pohl, Chief Product and Technology Officer of interos.ai, and Deborah Liu, co-founder of Ember AI, a startup bringing workflow automation to enterprises, and the former President and CEO of Ancestry. The conversation was a masterclass in navigating modern leadership, dismantling systemic biases, and the radical importance of intentionality.

Here are the standout insights from their discussion on how women can “take back their power” and reshape the corporate landscape.

Play the Game to Change the Game

Deb offered a pragmatic perspective on career advancement: "You play the game, you leave the game, or you play the game to change the game.”  

For those looking to reach the highest levels of leadership, Deb admitted she has changed aspects of herself to reach a position where she now has the influence to change how things happen for others. She gave insightful examples from her personal experience rising through the ranks of leadership and her book, Take Back Your Power: 10 New Rules for Women at Work.

The "Catch-22" of the Boardroom

Yardley raised a crucial question: How do you actually get a board seat? And Deb highlighted a frustrating reality: the number one qualification for a woman to join a board is often that she already serves on a board. This barrier persists despite studies Deb mentioned that show that companies with gender-diverse boards are 27% more likely to outperform financially.

Deb shared some additional stats that highlighted the lack of diversity: there are more men named Richard on public boards than there are women of color in the entirety of all public boards. While laws like the one in California requiring women on boards have been overturned, Deb remains intentional about "bending the curve" by recommending at least three qualified women whenever she is approached for a new board seat that she herself cannot take.

The Hidden Infrastructure of Success: Hire Help

Both Yardley and Deb recall instances from their pasts, receiving feedback in the workplace that male counterparts would have never received. But one of the most candid moments of the chat actually focused on the disparity of support at home, not in the workplace. Deb noted that 70% of C-suite men have a stay-at-home partner, while only about 20-30% of women in similar positions have that same luxury.

To combat burnout, Deb lives by a simple rule: Hire help. She argued that we must destigmatize getting help, whether for childcare, cooking, or household maintenance, and view it as an investment in one's career. Successful women do not "do it all" alone, and pretending otherwise does a disservice to the next generation of leaders.

Sponsorship Over Mentorship

While women often have many mentors, they frequently lack sponsors. Deb defined a sponsor as someone who has your back and puts their reputation on the line for you even when you aren't in the room. Mentors give advice, but sponsors open doors.  

She encouraged leaders to look at who they are sponsoring and recognize their own "affinity bias"—the tendency to unknowingly mainly support people who look and think like themselves. This reminded me of a recent chapter I read in Read Your Mind: Proven Habits for Success from the World's Greatest Mind Reader by Oz Pearlman (yes, I’ve become quite obsessed with magic and mentalism as of late, so bear with me), which emphasized the importance of creating champions and nurturing those relationships so that one day a client might say to an acquaintance, “I’ve got a guy” or a woman, and pass your information along.

Intentionality: Don’t Be a Free Rider

Deb’s closing advice was a "mic drop" moment on personal accountability. She urged everyone to be intentional by writing down one thing they hope to accomplish before every meeting and reflecting afterward on whether they achieved it.

Her final charge to the audience was bold: "Don’t be a free rider in a meeting and don’t be a free rider in your own life." If you aren't adding value or seeking to accomplish a goal, you are essentially leaving your power on the table.

Finally, Deb warned that women must adopt AI tools to avoid falling behind. Currently, women use AI 5 to 10 percentage points less than men in equivalent positions, often because they see it as "cheating." At a time where recruiters are filtering for AI skills, staying technical and being adaptable are a new requirement for the next revolution of leadership.

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